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US envoy recalls 'monster' Milosevic

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:02 pm
by Riki
US envoy recalls 'monster' Milosevic

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Why is truth so powerful, especially as a means to restore libertarianism to Balkan society? Because it is able to pierce through the lies and deceptions that cloud a person’s mind, thereby oftentimes causing the person to shift his world-view.
One of my favorite quotations is from Johann von Goethe: “None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.â€￾

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4802380.stm

http://www.haverford.edu/relg/sells/reports.html

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:04 pm
by Riki
The world today is a super market of ideas and ideologies, and everybody selling a product. It is not always the best product that sells the most. So often inferior products outsell superior ones. Good salesmen with bad products can outsell superior ones.

The study of history is the best medicine for a soul and mind; for in history you have a record of the infinite variety of human experience plainly set out for all to see; and in that record you can find yourself and your country both examples and warnings; fine things to take as models, base things rotten through and through, to avoid.

Keep the good work and shed more light in a very dark world. It is awfully dark and tragic.

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:52 pm
by Web Stailey
A great book to read on the subject of Milosevic is Peter Maass's "Love Thy Neighbor". Peter Maass is a Jew, and was a reporter in the early '90s. He was in Serbia reporting on the war, and his book is about his time in Serbia. Regardless of your current view on the subject, I do suggest that you read his book before you take a stand on whether or not Milosevic was a "good" or "bad" person. As a Jew, he had a very interesting take on the entire matter, and the blame didn't just end at Milosevic. He pointed to the United States and the majority of Europe, and it's tendency to overlook the matter. The question he raised, and I fear raising it again, was "would the world have cared had it been the Muslims killing the Christians instead of the Christians killing the Muslims?"

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:08 pm
by Omnieiunium
I recommend reading multiple books on the countries, plus studying the history of the conflict. Only then, when you have an understanding of the different points of view plus the history behind it can you truly understand the topic.

Just saying. Pan-slavism date back to the pre-1900 and is a continual issue (possible contributing factor in the causation of the first world war).

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:36 pm
by Moonman
Charles Martel wasn't a nice person either; but western history looks on him with a kinder eye. Maybe we are at the point where killing and war are perceived as bad. Or maybe we are just awaiting the rewrite on Milosevic.

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:14 pm
by DeadPoet
I think that we should wait a few years before claiming to know all about the Balkan conflict and Milosevic's involvement there. At the moment, a lot of things still aren't clear about the war, let alone about the organized massacres. These things tend to become known only after years...

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:39 pm
by Web Stailey
What Milosivec did was merely restart what had been happening for hundreds of years in the region. It wasn't until after WWII that peace was actually settled in the region, and then the peace was always on edge. Well, until the early '90s when the peace gave way to war.

However, Moonman, you made a good point. We look at war as bad, now, and that is not always the case. I think a lot of that has to do with the media portraying war as bad, and the media now showing pictures of the war and trying to play on people's emotions. Many people look back on WWII and say that American involvement in that war was "good". But, I wonder if people today would support a war under the same circumstances. During WWII, even the American government didn't believe that Germany was killing Jews or torturing them. It wasn't until we over-took Germany that we understood what was going on. And the American people certainly didn't believe it. I do wonder if today's public, given the same information given to the public during WWII, would support war. It is something to really think about.

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:08 pm
by Moonman
Remember too that during Pre-WWII conservatives were against war and in favor of diplomacy. Since the establishment of the military industrial complex that has changed 180 degrees. Also Martel is seen as a hero for driving the Moors out of Europe. In hindsight many historians now think that the average person was worse off for the change.

Tito managed to keep the former Yugoslavia together, but somehow I don't think he did it with lots of Plum Brandy and charm.

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:33 pm
by Web Stailey
If I'm not mistaken, he did it rather violently. In fact, the word "Impale" comes from Yugoslavia, but for the sake of those with weak stomachs, I'll not say the procedure or the outcome of the procedure.

from slobo to Impale, too funny:-))

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:34 pm
by lolomarseille
i beg you perdon, but Impale doesn't come from this region
and, closer, the best amateur of that was Vlad Tepes, more Known as Vlad Dracul, prince of valachia end of 15th, against the turks

i don't remember this famous chinese uprising, coz by the use of a wooden pal to execute an official, while he desserved an ivory one:-))

don't say that balkanics are different from you, that they kill themselves since ages
first it's too easy, you avoid analysis
second northern ireland is not in the balkan
third it's just not true

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 8:43 pm
by Web Stailey
According to the information I've read, impale came from Yugoslavia when it was under Turkish control. If you know that to be false, I'd like to learn the truth, and would much like to know your resource of such information so that I could learn it.

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:20 am
by Riki
Current day statistics tell us that there are more psychologically sick people than healthy ones. If you take a sampling of individuals in any given field, you are likely to find that a significant number of them display pathological symptoms to one extent or another.

http://torontosun.canoe.ca/News/Columni ... 94865.html

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:22 am
by lolomarseille
Auntie;
saying that balkanics are a bunch of barbars killing themselves since ice age, that is really flammatory, and it's pure racism(and false btw)
i took the northern ireland example, i don't see anything irrespectfull or rude in my previous post; i point that generalisation like that are level zero of thinking
web stailey
about the pale; post the link denying the existence of Vlad Tepes in 15th century, and better the inexistence of chinese empire:-)) i fear that you readed witch tale
(why do i feel the pale topic funnier than the yugoslavian nightmare???)

r u soon

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:54 pm
by Web Stailey
lolomarseille wrote:Auntie;
saying that balkanics are a bunch of barbars killing themselves since ice age, that is really flammatory, and it's pure racism(and false btw)
i took the northern ireland example, i don't see anything irrespectfull or rude in my previous post; i point that generalisation like that are level zero of thinking
web stailey
about the pale; post the link denying the existence of Vlad Tepes in 15th century, and better the inexistence of chinese empire:-)) i fear that you readed witch tale
(why do i feel the pale topic funnier than the yugoslavian nightmare???)

r u soon


I read it in a book about the region, saying that the impalement of men in the Balkans started in the 14th Century. The man would be sentenced to death (sorry if I'm not supposed to be posting this). Special "priests" would slice open the rectal cavity to make it wider and easier to move a steak through. The steak would then be tapped through the rectal cavity, sliding past all the vital organs, and coming out between the shoulder and neck. The process would take up to five hours to make sure that the person wasn't killed because the steak went through a vital organ. The process was called impalement (when translated into English), and was thus the basis for the word "impale". The man would then be hung over the streets at an angle so the person wouldn't slide down the steak, and passers-by would be encouraged to taunt the person and throw objects at him. The person often lived up to a week on the steak. It's a rather disgusting process, but it was their "death-penalty".

I should also note that the book had references to over 30 other books on the Balkans.

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:38 am
by lolomarseille
well, it's funny coz pale was in confucius laws 2000 years ago...Attila used impale too..
a lot of phantasm about the balkans, you know
it's convenient they're closer enough for being the mirror of our own barbary...
anyway, the best one(among impale lovers) was Vlad tepes, prince of valachia, more known as vlad drakul, one of the 2 real ancestors of dracula
he was a good christian