Alternate Headgear to the Colander

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DMan
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Alternate Headgear to the Colander

Postby DMan » Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:37 pm

I am a resident of North Carolina, and I have been in a discussion with the state DMV over my attempt to take a license photo with the colander. Even after providing all the information I was able to collect from venganza.org, I was finally provided a copy of the DMV policy which states: Religious Headgear Policy DMV policy permits customers to be photographed in a religious head covering that is worn on a daily basis, and at any time that the customer is in public, as part of their sincerely held religious beliefs of a religion. The head covering may not cover any part of the face. This exception does not apply to non-clothing objects that are not regularly or customarily worn as part of a religious practice.

I contacted my state ACLU over a month ago and I have not heard anything, I am getting frustrated. In my opinion, the state bureaucrats are manipulating the state policy to specifically discriminate against Pastafarians, but what can I do? My idea is for the creation of an alternate headgear that fits the description of this state's policy and may help in other states as well. Why not create a ballcap or a "boonie" hat (it kind of looks like a Spaghetti Monster already!) that has an appropriate insignia or picture and claim that hat as our alternate headgear? It would be something that could be easily worn all day and in public and would provide a much stronger legal argument---or so I believe.

I would like to build a consensus on the alternate hat idea so maybe the website could be modified and some of these hats could be designed. Please give feedback/ideas otherwise I am going to be forced to bend to the state's religious discrimination in another month or so....

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Re: Alternate Headgear to the Colander

Postby ET, the Extra Terrestrial » Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:38 pm

hmm, interesting. Speaking as a daily writer of legislative lingo, I think NC has done their homework rather well on this one. Inclusion of the "worn daily" language would seem to exclude the yarmulke, among others. I would bet that no one has realized that the last sentence prevents anyone from wearing a wig for their photo. Perhaps if you can show examples of a few bewigged license photos, you might make some headway. Another thing to keep in mind is that this is Policy, not Rule or Statute. Policy is arbitrary, and can be anything as long as it doesn't conflict with rule or law. It is the easiest of the three to ignore for an agent of the Department to which it applies.
I do feel an urge to strangle whoever it was that wrote "religious beliefs of a religion" though. Half of my work life is spent fixing that kind of redunderheadedness.
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Re: Alternate Headgear to the Colander

Postby DMan » Fri Jun 17, 2016 6:04 am

ET, I appreciate the support. I may have to just track down a civil liberties attorney myself without the ACLU's help.... :cry:

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Re: Alternate Headgear to the Colander

Postby Cardinal Fang » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:43 pm

Considering that pirates are sacred to His Noodliness, could you not wear a pirate hat or jolly roger bandana, instead of a colander?

Presumably so long as you can prove you wear it on a daily basis (for example a few photos of you wearing it on multiple days), you perhaps could then argue that that fits the critera. And unlike a colander, both hats and bandanas don't fall foul of the "non-clothing objects" bit.

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Re: Alternate Headgear to the Colander

Postby DMan » Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:00 am

I'd be willing to go the pirate route also...wearing it daily might be a little awkward, however again it would help to have some form of change on the "official" doctrine website. Iv'e tried to e-mail [email protected]....but no response so that's why I'm trying to build an interest/support here in the forums to push an "official" and documented change in policy. Ideas? Appreciate the feedback so far! :fsm_float:

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Re: Alternate Headgear to the Colander

Postby Qwertyuiopasd » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:31 am

Here's my advice: consider what you would like the policy to be first, then figure out the headgear practice that would best help achieve that end, and then take the pedal off the contentious legal route for a while and just do the practice. Eventually, when it is time for a new photo ID, you'll have been wearing the garb religiously enough to honestly and factually state that it's religious headgear, you wear it all the time, and it makes sense to have it in the ID.

For me, that's the big thing. What makes sense? For science classrooms, it makes sense to keep religious doctrine which is not scientific fact out of the classroom. For driver's licenses, it makes sense that the government wants an accurate picture of the person in question. So if someone wears a hijab all the time, and any time they might have to present the ID they'll be wearing it, it makes sense to have it. And also, I believe they're not supposed to take it off in public, i.e. while getting their photo taken at the DMV. Even with daily religious headgear to honor the FSM, I think he'd be okay with you taking it off for even lesser reasons, like to scratch your head or swat at flies or something. But if your religious devotion to the FSM calls you to wear something all the time and never show your head in public, and you follow through on that, then it makes sense to get the ID photo taken that way.

Though if you do all that, to me it sounds like it would fit the exemption, so it's just a matter of having them recognize it as such, rather than changing the policy. I'm just worried if you aren't doing all that, and you challenge the exemption, you have no case, or perhaps worse, you succeed in changing the policy to something that makes less sense overall, and your life remains un-impacted or inconvenienced by the government policy, and now the authorities have to deal with random headgear in photo IDs being distracting or superfluous to the purpose of the ID.

And just to clarify: this is all coming from someone who did in fact religiously wear a pirate hat for many years, and did have scuffles with the powers that be over it.
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Re: Alternate Headgear to the Colander

Postby DMan » Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:36 pm

You have me thinking Qwerty....I concur to a point about the daily wear, but does that mean we need new photos with beards/mustaches or after we shave them? Our appearance does change from day to day or year after year. I just find it so infuriating that an agency charged with public and vehicle safety is now the arbiter of my religious beliefs.

I have actually found a few commercial baseball hats with His Noodleness on the front, I would gladly buy and wear something like that daily if their was an approval or endorsement of that style of hat from the church. I am just trying to anticipate a future argument with a state agency that would shoot down a picture with a baseball hat also.... :furious:

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Re: Alternate Headgear to the Colander

Postby DMan » Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:36 pm

You have me thinking Qwerty....I concur to a point about the daily wear, but does that mean we need new photos with beards/mustaches or after we shave them? Our appearance does change from day to day or year after year. I just find it so infuriating that an agency charged with public and vehicle safety is now the arbiter of my religious beliefs.

I have actually found a few commercial baseball hats with His Noodleness on the front, I would gladly buy and wear something like that daily if their was an approval or endorsement of that style of hat from the church. I am just trying to anticipate a future argument with a state agency that would shoot down a picture with a baseball hat also.... :furious:

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Re: Alternate Headgear to the Colander

Postby ItchyPirate » Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:15 pm

The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster says that Pastafarians are encouraged to wear pirate garb at every reasonably possible moment. That would imply either a bandana or a tricorn hat. You could grab a copy of the Gospel, bookmark the page with the "encouragement", then go into the DMV with your pirate-based headgear. Since it's printed in one of the official books outlining our faith, they can't really argue with it - unless they want to tell you it isn't a real religion, but then you could threaten them with legal action for not honouring the headgear of what is for you an honest-and-true religion.
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Re: Alternate Headgear to the Colander

Postby Qwertyuiopasd » Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:05 am

Unfortunately The Gospel is categorized in the humor section of bookstores and I believe libraries if it's in any, not the religion section, so be prepared for them to counter with that.
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Re: Alternate Headgear to the Colander

Postby DMan » Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:41 am

Threatening a desk clerk at DMV or even the supervisor doesn't do much. I have taken it to the state AG representing the DMV and he is the one providing the unsigned, undated policy....the ACLU has turned me down, so now I am trying to hire a civil rights attorney to draft a letter similar to the great Wisconsin letter provided on the website. :nefyoobash:

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Re: Alternate Headgear to the Colander

Postby DMan » Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:05 pm

LOST THIS BATTLE! Without being able to retain a civil rights attorney that would help, I finally acquiesced and got a "normal" unhappy pic for my DL. I have too many other issues that needed that stupid DL and I had to move along. NC has a lot of repressive issues going on right now

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Re: Alternate Headgear to the Colander

Postby ItchyPirate » Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:02 pm

Whatever you do, do not give up. Loosing one battle does not been you lost the war. The best thing you can do is show the DMV and the local and state government you mean business in fighting for your right to religious expression. :furious:
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