How to prevent Christians from stoning you.

[Apostateabe]

Howdy folks...I'd like to ask a question. The first problem I seem to come up against when I'm talking to the really repugnant fundies is how the 'Cosmic Jewish Zombie's' death negated the OT, so even though there are a bunch of horrific punsihments for wearing cotton/polyester blends and tattooing the crucifix on one's arm is as blasphemous as lying with another man in the OT, they're no longer bound by it's rules. Whenever I come across a bunch of intelligent minded people (present company included), we all spend our time in DudeARodInMe and Leviticus (o.k., I really just don't know how to spell the first book, and thought that was mildly clever) because it is sensational, but the wind is out of our sails if we bring these arguments to bear.

I don't have the time to dedicate to reading the NT. Can someone point me toward a few examples of repulsive commands or anti-social dogma in the post-zombie bible?

The New Testament is liberalized considerably, and so the most horrifying examples of violence are directly of God. As in Luke 16:

19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

And in Acts 5:

1But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,

2And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

3But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

5And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

6And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.

7And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.

8And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.

9Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

10Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

11And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

There is a comprehensive list of "Cruelty and Violence" in the Bible (OT and NT) at this page of Skeptic's Annotated Bible.

[Marinara Minister]

Thank you for that reference, it has already proved invaluable.

As a continuance to a story I may or may not have been telling, I've been going back and forth over email with a particularly hard-headed BA fundie over CA Prop 8. Her last transmission to me was:

"My faith is strong enough to die for.
Would you die for your beliefs?"

To which I replied:

"Willingness to throw your life away isn't an indication of strength. It's easy, even cowardly, to die when you think a reward awaits you. Martyrdom is suicide by god.

My beliefs are strong enough to live for. I suppose that is our difference."

I haven't yet broached the greatness and somewhat demonstrable superiority of His Noodlyness, as far as deities go, but I wonder aloud how a religion that so values a 'culture of life' can be so disposed to martyrdom. Is it safe to say that the culture that FSM supports is truly one of life, and that the most faithful thing we can do is to stay living as long as possible?

[Apostateabe]

Thank you for that reference, it has already proved invaluable.

As a continuance to a story I may or may not have been telling, I've been going back and forth over email with a particularly hard-headed BA fundie over CA Prop 8. Her last transmission to me was:

"My faith is strong enough to die for.
Would you die for your beliefs?"

To which I replied:

"Willingness to throw your life away isn't an indication of strength. It's easy, even cowardly, to die when you think a reward awaits you. Martyrdom is suicide by god.

My beliefs are strong enough to live for. I suppose that is our difference."

I haven't yet broached the greatness and somewhat demonstrable superiority of His Noodlyness, as far as deities go, but I wonder aloud how a religion that so values a 'culture of life' can be so disposed to martyrdom. Is it safe to say that the culture that FSM supports is truly one of life, and that the most faithful thing we can do is to stay living as long as possible?

Glad I can be of help.

[Scott the Pirate]

Don't know if this is true or not, but supposedly Dr. Dawkins once wrote that a fundie once said to him "Atheism is stupid. Who would die for the universe?" To which he responded "That's a good point". Supposedly the fundie spent years telling people that the great Richard Dawkins ceded a point to him. It took years for the fundie to run across someone who wondered whether it was actually a good point or if Dawkins was actually taking another stab at the fact that people are willing to DIE for unprovable ideas. Nothing like a burn that takes 5 years to sink in!

[Apostateabe]

Don't know if this is true or not, but supposedly Dr. Dawkins once wrote that a fundie once said to him "Atheism is stupid. Who would die for the universe?" To which he responded "That's a good point". Supposedly the fundie spent years telling people that the great Richard Dawkins ceded a point to him. It took years for the fundie to run across someone who wondered whether it was actually a good point or if Dawkins was actually taking another stab at the fact that people are willing to DIE for unprovable ideas. Nothing like a burn that takes 5 years to sink in!

Ideologues are very often stuck in the mode of thinking that correct ideas must be ideas to be followed fanatically.

[Dudeman55556]

what exactly would they be stoning me with? granite? limestone? or maybe cocaine?

[Dudeman55556]

it says stone them with stones, and crack is definitely a stone. You've probably heard the term "crack rocks" before.

[SCOUT]

dudeman, u are such a middle schooler...

[Dudeman55556]

I'm tempted to try it. If I did it at a conservative enough church, maybe they actually would stone me. then I could sue them, and they would get horrible publicity.

[BumbleBee]

They take it really hard when you tell them that their book is full of mistakes and outright contradictions, and therefore cannot be the final word of a perfect being. For example, the book of soloman (sp? song of soloman?) states that king soloman built a huge cauldron and that it measured 30 cubits around and 10 cubits from lip to lip. That's wrong. Pi is 3.14 not 3.0. This is a terrible estimate even by the standards of the ancient world. That fact alone says to me that the bible is only a collection of stories written by men, not a divine creator. They also don't like it when you point out the fact that the bible was written by men for men. All you ladies out there need to remember that according to the bible, you are first the property of your father and later the property of your husband and could be sold as such.

Scott

I hope if my husband tries to sell me, it's for something very valuable- like diamonds, or oil...

Also, if a Christian wants to stone me, I just hope it's not cut with something that may make me sick- plain old mary-wanna is good enough for me thanks.

[Apostateabe]

I'm tempted to try it. If I did it at a conservative enough church, maybe they actually would stone me. then I could sue them, and they would get horrible publicity.

Do it at a conservative church. If you do, I will mail you at least five dollars for a beer.

[MostlyHarmless]

Although no Christian church would ever allow me inside, this is certainly valuable advice. I shall do this when surrounded by my Christian friends... if I am ever truly convinced that life has nothing more to offer me. This is a sure and admirable path to violent martyrdom.

[Valanthe]

Zealots of any stripe are probably best avoided; just look over at the Middle East for evidence of that, and no, I'm not targeting Muslim zealots alone. The Crusades were a very interesting series of holy wars. I find it interesting that the people most likely to kill in the name of their god are the ones follow a monotheistic doctrine that insists their god is supreme above all else. Spooky.

If you look at the 10 Commandments, it is stated that "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." That implies that other gods exist, you just aren't supposed to worship them. So does that mean the xtians actually shouldn't be praying to the Magical Jewish Zombie? Just thought I'd throw that out there for consideration. I have thoughts, and they mess with the whole "faith" thing...which is why I love being a Pastafarian!

[PKMKII]

Zealots of any stripe are probably best avoided; just look over at the Middle East for evidence of that, and no, I'm not targeting Muslim zealots alone. The Crusades were a very interesting series of holy wars. I find it interesting that the people most likely to kill in the name of their god are the ones follow a monotheistic doctrine that insists their god is supreme above all else. Spooky.

If you look at the 10 Commandments, it is stated that "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." That implies that other gods exist, you just aren't supposed to worship them. So does that mean the xtians actually shouldn't be praying to the Magical Jewish Zombie? Just thought I'd throw that out there for consideration. I have thoughts, and they mess with the whole "faith" thing...which is why I love being a Pastafarian!

Mind you that back in the day of the OT, before proselytizing religions, the notion that the God(s) one worshiped was inherently tied to one's culture. It was a lot more accepted that divine truth was something that varied depending on what group/culture/tribe you were born into. So when it says "Thou shalt have no other gods before me," it's just as much saying not to leave the culture as the religion.

[2eyespatch]

Boy you sure have a problem with christians in the States... even the most radicals around here (Spain, and I mean Opus Dei stuff) won't dare menacing people with stoning, whatever the bible says.

I could live along quite well with any religious people, as far as they are not the fundamentalist kind: "do as we do or we'll have you do it" is so middle ages it stinks.

maybe if we want His Noodliness FSM to be the overwhelming religion we all want it to be, we should copycat some of their behaviours. Only, instead of stoning, I'd wine into stupor anyone who do not worhship our Monstrosity.